Does God send people to Hell?
By apologia on November 29th, 2007 at 08:58am
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OK... Please participate in the above poll, whether you are a Christian or not. I want to get some input on people's perceptions of Christianity and what it teaches on this subject.
I'm in the middle of several blogs on Evil & Christianity, so this naturally corresponds. And as I'm speaking to/blogging/commenting with atheists, Christians, etc, it has proven itself an important doctrine to discuss.
Accoding to the Bible, God
Accoding to the Bible, God created hell, and the rule that all who have sin will go there, and the foreknowledge that man would sin. Add to that the fact that no one can really be sure of hell's existance because of God's refusal to present any tangible evidence to support it, and one can arrive at the conclusion that God is much more directly involved in an individual's going to hell than the individual himself.
This may be rebutted with the argument that God provided man with a way to escape hell, by making a simple choice, however, how can one be blamed for going to hell if they don't have a reason to believe in its existance?
Furthermore, why must man be born with the sin nature in the first place? If God is indeed "perfectly just", shouldn't we get the same choice Adam did, instead of inheriting the consequences of his actions? And let me go ahead and say that the choice of whether or not to accept Christ does not in any way equate to Adam's decision. God walked with Adam and spoke audibly to him, and told him audibly not to eat the fruit of a certain tree. If God took a walk down the street with me and told me audibly to accept Christ, of course I would do what He says, instead He puts His will in a book, and assumes that we will know it to be true.
God loves you Good Kat...
GoodKat, in your other comment, you said that your parents take you to church. I think that you have a decent grasp of Christian beliefs. If so, you probably understand that mankind inherited a sin nature and we are slaves to sin. You probably also know that everyone has sinned.
Do you also know that God can not be in the presence of sin? So, Hell should be viewed more as a quaranteen for those who refused to be healed of the sin plague that they suffer from.
Now, your other questions are pretty deep philosophy. You seem to indicate that God should have created a reality without the chance of sin, but also with a free will for every person.
Think about those requirements and you'll see them as mutually exclusive-- an impossibility. It's like asking God to create a square circle.
God created the most perfect reality He could while getting the end result He wanted-- a relationship with a group of people who choose to worship Him and have a relationship with Him.
Now, your bigger problem is that your parents love you enough to offer you the truth, yet you choose to reject it.
I'm praying that you will come to accept it, and that you will enter a life of relationship with the God who loved you enough to die for you, and loves you enough now to offer you chance after chance.
God loves you and wants to spend eternity with you.
Never forget that.
How do you vote?
How do you vote?
Musta' been a glitch in the poll.
I think I have it fixed. Just click your answer and submit the vote.
For everyone, whether voting or not, I'd love some feedback on what you believe and why.
Thanks...
A qualified yes.
Going against Greg Koukl's advice I'll quote a bible verse. "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness." Matthew 7:23. A straightforward reading gives the impression that God is sending these people to Hell. Of course there are some other factors at play here, but the bottom line is, if God is not sending these people to Hell, who is, and if He is, then why is He?
Hey LB...
I'm interested to hear the qualification.
I'm hesitant to detail my views on the matter too much yet, because I don't want to dictate the conversation right now. I will reference Lewis' quote of Chesterson, to the effect that Hell is a testament to mankind's free will. I know we also both share a certain fondness for "The Great Divorce", which was a pretty cool treatment of the subject.
Along that line, I'll also say that I loved your fictitious conversation between Jesus and the atheist outside of heaven (on your blog). It was something to the effect of:
Jesus: "You wanna come in?"
Atheist: "Not really."
Jesus: "OK. Have it your way."
Thoughts?
PS: Do us a favor and don't stay gone fro your blogging too terribly long/much. Yes, I'm being selfish. :)
A works based salvation?
Matthew 7:23 is referring to a works based salvation. There is no way around it. With such comments as -> "but he that doeth the will of my Father" and "have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"
When rightly divided, you will find that eternal salvation is truly by grace, but that our present salvation is by works (works of righteousness such as believing, baptism, prayer, etc...) because it is our reward for obedience. Disobedience brings with it the chastening of God, to which Matthew 7:23 refers, not everlasting punishment. If we are disobedient, we loose our present salvation and life. If we sin we die, but if we are obedient we live.
"For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace"
"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live"
If we love Christ, then He and the Father will come and make thier abode within us in the form of the Holy Spirit. If we sin, we grieve the Spirit and can eventually quench the Spirit. The result is the departing of the Holy Spirit and so also the presence of Christ and the Father within us.
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace"
Keep in mind that the Holy Spirit is the earnest [small amount given in advance] of the same inheritance that we are bequeeathed at regeneration. Examine carefully Ephesians 1.
Hey BaptistCommentary
I don't have the time or energy to debate you again on your interpretation of scripture, per the election and your view of the "2 salvations".
I will agree with you though that God does not send people to Hell. We do a swell job of that on our own.
Per your comments:
Matthew 7:23 is referring to a works based salvation. There is no way around it. With such comments as -> "but he that doeth the will of my Father" and "have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"
"will of My Father..." It seems important to understand the will of the Father. Jesus seems to indicate that it is putting His words into practice, and the context would define these words as Matt 7:7-12. Asking... Doesn't sound like works to me, but like faith in the one we are to ask to perform the work. The grace therein is proven in 7:11 when painted as a free gift given to ALL who ask.
I also find it interesting that you would portray the prophesying, casting out of devils and wonderful works as salvation of works, when it isn't even mentioned as salvation. As a matter of fact, these are the people sent away from Christ, and whom He never knew. As a matter of further fact, context defines these people as false prophets (7:15). These would be the same false prophets that Peter says are bound in destruction (2 Peter 2:1,3), are condemned (2:3), are compared to the angels bound for Hell (2:4), compared to Sodom and Gomorrah (2:6), are held for the day of judgment (2:9), will perish (2:2) are accursed (2:14), are springs without water (a common symbol that Christ used for the Spirit of God)...
This is well off topic, so I won't go too deep into our differences. I did think it important, though, to make it plain to my readers that we disagree greatly on matters of doctrine.
Much love and grace...
For the judgment was by one to condemnation
"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."
It is NOT God who sends people to Hell. It was Adam's single transgression which sent ALL of mankind to Hell, and God, who by grace, chose according to the good pleasure of His will, to bestow upon an elect people the free gift of eternal life. Thus likewise, by one is the free gift given, although with opposite affect, saving ALL His chosen people from this judgement.
www.baptistcommentary.com